My wife and I had a lovely day “taster” session on an Orbit Tandem in the Southern Lakes recently. We loved it but some of the steep descents showed the brakes to be a little feeble. We are pretty light folks and the bike had a V brake front and back set-up. The V brakes on my solo MTB are more than powerful enough to lock up where required so I know them to be good generally. As Northerners hills are part and parcel so I’m a little concerned about stopping on the descents.
We are now looking at something like a Dawes Double Edge (I’ve wanted one for years) but it comes with cable disk brakes. On the solo bikes I’ve come across with cable disks they have been pathetic.
So if V brakes were barely adequate on the Orbit surely disks are going to be woefull on the Dawes?
Anyone any experience of the Double Edge who can put my mind at rest?
Hi Jonny
I ride a tandem in the Lakes with a friend of mine, so feel I can at least sympathise with you!
We regularly do Wrynose, Hardknott, Wall End, Birker Fell, Kirkstone and occasionally get out to Honister, Newlands, Whinlatter.
We’re not light riders (I wish! - combined weight of I’d say near 25-26 stone), and with hills of 25-30% to go down (and up), we rely on decent brakes.
I’m not too well up on the brakes on the tandem (someone from JD Cycles might be able to fill in the gaps), but basically, it’s a Santana Arriva? with V brakes front and rear and a rear hydraulic disc brake (huge thing - not sure of the make).
I must say, the rear V brake on the tandem is awesome. We can very easily lock the rear wheel up - even with our weight. The disc brake is good, but we find on a descent of something like Wrynose, we still need the odd bit of assistance from the V brake, otherwise we slowly pick up speed. I’ve never ridden anything else with a disc brake so can’t compare it. My gut feeling was that it should be a tad better than it is. But thinking of the weight etc, perhaps that’s just asking too much.
We did have a bit of trouble with the disc brake at first, and were thinking of changing it for the new cable version, but we’re informed that it isn’t as powerful, so we’ll probably stick with what we’ve got.
Personally, I’d be wary of having only disc brakes - cable or not. We do tour abroad occasionally, and we have had brake fade a couple of times when loaded up with panniers on long Alpine descents, but as I say, that rear V brake really is the puppies privates and has never let us down (though does go through blocks at an alarming rate!)
On the other hand, I’d also be wary of ‘only V brakes’. We’ve already gone through one rear rim in 12 months riding, so I dread to think how many we’d have gone through without the disc brake.
I’m assuming you are from the Lakes yourself? I’d just caution one thing. Read all the specs of ‘how many miles this and that will last’, then throw them away. They’re totally useless for the type of riding in the Lakes. Life is HARD for a tandem up here. We’re finding it to be a particularly expensive pass time! I guess if you only ride in the dry (not going to do much riding here in that case) , and avoid the bigger climbs it will help, but that defeats the object a bit don’t you think? Stuff like chains and cassettes we can sort of understand, what’s harder to understand is that in the last 12 months or so, we’ve replaced (under warranty thankfully!) hubs (1 - rear), freehub (2), bottom bracket (1), rear mech (just about to replace).
Don’t take this as a whinge against JD Cyles. They’ve been more than helpful and bent over backwards to help us out, but I don’t think we were prepared for just how hard the Lakes can be on a tandem. If we were riding in Norfolk, we’d probably only be wondering whether it was time to change the chain!
Be interested to hear how other ‘tandemists’ get on in hilly areas, and if there’s any kit we should be looking at in particular that will give us a fair shot at some long untroubled riding. On the other hand, maybe we just need to lose some weight
With an all-up weight of maybe 19 stone and no luggage we shouldn’t have had the problems then, I should have taken more notice of the conditions of the brakes, but to be honest we were just enjoying the experience. The truth is we could control our speed on the long, v. steep descents, but no way could we have actually stopped (I can still hear the screams of BRAKE!! from behind me...the trust will come I’m sure ).
As a Cumbrian that moved East a few years ago Northumberland, the Lakes and everything between would be our playground. I also know about brake block wear. I’ve had to change them on my MTB twice in a week. It’s about the conditions not how hard they work, that was on the C2C with my 11yr old son!
Maybe I’m at the wrong end of the market & need to save up a while longer
We have a Dawes Double Edge demo tandem, why not come and give it a try? The cable pull brakes it uses are Avid BB7s which are they are really good, I would also add - as a back up in case you had a problem with one of the brakes - a rear V brake operated by the rear rider, this would only cost about £25.
I agree with you there are some really rubbish cable pull disc brakes out there in the market place, but I think you would be really impressed with the Avid brakes.
John and I toured with lots of very heavy luggage round Southern Spain a couple of years ago with 2 V brakes and an Avid on our Santana, and we had plenty of stopping power.
Don’t forget when descending the tandem picks up momentum really quickly, for the comfort of your rear rider you need to control your speed at all times and this is where disc brakes work well, without the worry of over heating the rims.
Its pretty hilly down here too, we ride in Devon and Cornwall and although we are light, also found the V-brakes fitted on my tandem to be inadequate, so I have now recently fitted Magura HS33 rim brakes, and wow, these are awesome brakes a vast improvement over the V-brakes, and a fairly simple upgrade if you don’t have disc hubs. I would highly recomend them
The issue of brakes and tandeming is always going to be one that is regularly debated. It’s a balance between power and heat dissapation. And everyones braking needs are different, riding in the Lake District requires a different braking need to riding in the Pyranees or the Alps. John and I are currently running 2 V brakes and an Avid with a 10” rotor on the rear, and this works well for UK conditions.
If anyone would like our advice on which braking system we think would suit their needs, please feel free to give us a ring on 01943 816101 or post a message on the forum.
Lots of folk seem to have braking issues!
We’ve been tandeming for 32 years and never had braking issues and never owned a tandem with disc brakes (but have ridden them) MUch seems to be in HOW peoplew brake.
We have climbed/descended up to 9,200 elevation here in Arizona, USA.
Have done so way back when in the 70s and 80s, with the old Mafac cantilever brakes front and rear only. We were told by ‘experts’ we just could not do that.
Our method is as follows on steep descents and switchbacks. Scrub speed early, don’t wait ‘til you hit the curve and then grab both brake levers in a panic and hope for the best.
We constantly alternate between front and rear brake. First front, then rear and repeat constantly. A bit tough on the fingers but it works.
Descended local mountain (just about 8,000’ elevation) with a steady 6 to 7 percent grade. (6 to 7 fot drop each 100 ft.) for 12 miles with lots of curves.
Did have to stop halfway down as fingers were cramping up. Checked out our rims while stopped and they were warm but not hot. Continued our descent without issues
Currently using a Dura Ace calipher front brake and a Tektro Mini V-brake in rear. No problems.
As a tanfdem tream we weigh in at just under 250 lbs.
Just our experiences/opinions . . .yours may be different!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem/USA
That seems like very good advice Zonatandem. I’m sure technique has a lot to do with it. When someone says they can “lock the wheel up” that really means the bike has lost optimum braking effort, because the tyre is then skidding and not gripping. That’s what ABS brakes on cars are about, preventing the wheel locking and losing traction.
I would say discs are essential if you want to ride fast or in dirty / wet conditions. We have discs both ends on our tandem - hope M4s - 203 disc front and 180 rear. Plenty of stopping power and plenty of feel.
Over heating is only an issue if you drag the brakes - If you use them in short sharp bursts it is no problem and with big tyres and these discs we can stop the bike ( I think) quicker than any car or motorcycle I have ridden. We weigh in at around 300lbs
I would never ride a tandem with vs - simply not enough brake.
As for wearing stuff out as mentioned above - we absolutely hammer our bike - real offroading including rock gardens and jumps. rims become a service item - mavic 721s rear sun ryno front - six months to a year on the back - the front wheel is a 48 spoker and so far is true.
Hubs - freehubs get destroyed very quickly using the low gears (22 granny ring and 34 rear!) Shimano are just not up to the job - we bust 3 in 6 months. Hope big uns - riped apart in a year - hope fixed it and reccomended more servicing than usual for it. We get around 500 miles from a rear chain, 100 - 1500 and its a complete drivetrain needed. Etc etc.
Anyway good to see more folk riding tandems - hope to see you out on the road.
Sounds like most of you Brits do some crazy off-road tandeming. Grit/dirt/wet all have an influence on braking as does the steepness/curves of the terrain.
Have ridden off road on a test tandem once as stoker in the Arizona desert. Fun, but not my cup ‘o tea.
Our braking experiences are as they relate to road use only; we have ridden the occasional dirt/rock strewn trail out of necessity. They don’t call this the Old Wild West for nothing!
At our age (75/73) we are glad to be still out there pedaling TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
, and avoid the bigger climbs it will help, but that defeats the object a bit don’t you think? Stuff like chains and cassettes we can sort of understand, what’s harder to understand is that in the last 12 months or so, we’ve replaced (under warranty thankfully!) hubs (1 - rear), freehub (2), bottom bracket (1), rear mech (just about to replace).
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